2/28 Patch Analysis

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Rienen
Posts: 1
Joined: 28 Feb 2021, 14:53

2/28 Patch Analysis

Post by Rienen »

I’m curious as to the thinking behind the recent update that boosted Boss HP and appeared to alter damage and hit rates. After noticing the higher HP values, in the logs, as well as the apparent higher block rates, I decided to start tracking numbers to see how the math shook out. Please know, this is a very small sample size compared to everything the dev can pull, so hopefully I’m not too off base.

Hazy memories and disclaimer:
Last night, grinding on the level 80 boss, I remember its starting health being around approx 950. This morning, I was shocked to see that it had ballooned up to 1,940. This means that the new boss HP is around 2x what it was. If I’m misremembering that, I apologize.

As far as hit rate goes, I don’t have specific numbers to compare against, but it was anecdotally MUCH better than I saw this morning with comparable weapons.

I'm not a math wizard. So, if something is wrong, sorry.


Math Setup Information and Assumptions:
In order to kill the new level 80 boss, I’d have to bring its HP from 1,940 to 0. For full disclosure, I only started tracking at 1,178. So, I am going to extrapolate a bit to account for the chunk I wasn’t tracking.

From 1,178 to 0, due to durability on my weapons not being at max, I used 3 weapons:
  • Level 45, 1119 dmg, Excel Emer Widesword
  • Level 40, 1006 dmg, Excel Lypr Dagger
  • Level 55, 1138 dmg, Good Lypr Widesword
That is an average weapon level of 46.67 and an avg weapon dmg of 1087.7

Since I’ve previously seen no visible difference between dmg per hit, for any durability total higher than 1, I’m going to make the assumption that from Max to 1 durability, a weapon can do full damage.

I also don’t know the exact swing times of weapons, so I’m going to use 1s/swing as a baseline/”guesstimate”.


Combat Log Analysis:
Level 45 E EWS:
Swung 57 times (40 hits and 17 misses), for an average of 5.14 dmg per swing, with a 70% hit rate.
Level 40 E LD:
Swung 144 times (107 hits and 37 misses), for an average of 5.19 dmg per swing, with a 74% hit rate.
Level 55 G LWS
Swung 22 times (16 hits and 6 misses), for an average of 6.72 dmg per swing, with a 73% hit rate.

So, from 1,178 to 0...
Swung 223 times (163 hits and 60 misses), for an avg of 5.3 dmg per swing, for a hit rate of 73%. With a swing time of 1s/swing, that comes out to 3:43 mins.


Expanding out:
Expanding that out to account for the Level 80 bosses full 1,940 health
Using the avg dmg per swing of 5.3 and hit rate of 73%
From using an avg weapon level of 46.7 and an avg weapon dmg of 1087.7...

It would take approx 501 swings (366 hits and 135 misses) to defeat him. Which would be 8:21 mins, based on a 1s/swing rate.


But at what cost?
Since blocks don’t cost durability and hits cost 1, that would be 366 durability I’d lose/have to repair. For argument’s (and simplicity) sake, I’m going to use my level 45, 1119 Excel Emer WS, as a basis of comparison against the “46.7 avg level and 1087.7 avg weapon dmg”.

This 250 durability weapon, after breaking, cost me 450 Gold to repair. I know this because I removed everything I was wearing except this weapon. So that’s 1.8 gold per durability point for this weapon.

So, 366 hits, at 1.8 gold per durability point, is approx 658 total gold. If there’s a higher “per durability point” cost for broken items, I apologize for not taking this into account.

RANDOM NOTE: Even calculating using exclusively my higher level weapon, level 55 Good Lypriptite Widesword, the numbers still came out to the following:
397 Swings (289 hits and 108 misses) to defeat the level 80 boss.
6:37 mins time to kill (down 1:43 mins) due to the 1.4 higher avg dmg per hit (6.7 vs 5.3)
So, 289 hits, at 2.88 gold per durability point (720 to repair 250), it comes out to a total of approx 832 gold to defeat the boss with the weapon.



My reward for spending (roughly) 658 gold and more than twice the amount of time as yesterday, thanks to the new patches higher boss HP and lower weapon hit rates?:
All I got from the level 80 boss was a Bag of Slime worth 12 gold. Hah. No upgrade and approx 1.8% my expected repair cost for killing the boss. (See attachment below)


Conclusion:
Since, before this patch, my boss drops tended to be almost always only gear items or potions (neither of which sell for gold), I’m unsure what the benefit of grinding bosses is now. Especially given the extreme cost to even attempt them and no strong guarantee at drops worth the effort.

Combine this with the open loot system, I wouldn't even recommend bringing in a group to fight the boss. As you have even less of a chance to grab loot with everyone spam clicking once things appear.

Obviously, if your game design philosophy is to push players to go for exclusively climbing the Spire, rather than accumulate player levels through grinding bosses, that’s 100% fine. I would just say that, given this update, I can’t imagine anyone stopping to attempt any bosses anymore over simply opting to run past them for the next level.


Suggestion (so I’m not just complaining, hah):
If you’re wanting to discourage grinding bosses that are a lower level than the player, perhaps you could alter the “EXP = (Dmg*4)” formula. Maybe remove the *4 "bonus" from players who greatly out level the floor/mob level.
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Hyzer
Posts: 7
Joined: 21 Feb 2021, 17:51

Re: 2/28 Patch Analysis

Post by Hyzer »

I went to fight the lvl 180 boss last night and ended up moving on. After my first weapon broke, my backup weapon had just over + 1000 attack but the damage i was doing was very minimal. Basically the same as if i was using a broken weapon. I'm level 80. I guess that's why?

This encourages people to turn on auto attack and go afk and just use a broken weapon. Is that intended? It definitely wasn't worth my time to fight it manually and switch weapons when one broke.

I'm not sure what was intended with this change? It seems like the standard mobs should have their difficulty upgraded.. The boss fights were reasonably challenging if a player fought them straight up . It seems like a bandaide that didn't address the actual issue of boss mobs not be able to hit players in certain positions.

Maybe it would help to know what spire level we should be at compared to our player level? How should it be balanced in a perfect world? Is it 1 to 1? So a level 80 should reasonably be able to kill the level 80 boss ? Maybe 1-2? A level 80 could kill the lvl 160 boss? Maybe it's not that linear?

It definitely wasn't worth my time to kill the boss yesterday...which then makes me question if i should climb any higher if i cant kill anymore bosses? I guess i just keep leveling up on a lower boss until we can hit the higher lvl ones?

We don't know if it is "working as intended" or not.

Edit: I see the standard spire mobs had their difficulty adjusted as well....which wasnt the case yesterday when i was fighting the boss.
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Lartu
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Joined: 09 Feb 2021, 00:30
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Re: 2/28 Patch Analysis

Post by Lartu »

Hi there!

Great post and analysis. The only thing I did really was increase the level for all spire mobs. Before this patch the level of any mob was defined by the level of the spire they were at. Every 8 levels, mobs would gain a level. So from level 1 to level 8, mobs would be level 1. From level 9 to 16, level 2, and so on. In this patch mobs gain a level every 3 spire levels and that’s it. I didn’t touch damage, hit rates, drops or anything.

What you said is, of course, mostly right, because if you were fighting a level X boss, now you’ll be fighting a level 2.66*X boss, which, of course, will be stronger.

Sorry but I laughed really hard at the Bag of Slime. I mean, it’s an AWFUL drop, but it’s really, really bad luck. I didn’t change that! But if you are in level Y of the spire you should go to level around Y / 2.66 to find a boss equal to the one you were fighting in the past.

My conclusion here would be the following things:

1. Rebalance the combat system. This is something I’m notoriously bad at, but I will make my best effort to change it to something that actually works.

2. Increase the durability for higher level weapons. It’s dumb that an iron sword has the same durability as a Sword of Longwillion.

3. I have to add better drops for bosses and higher level enemies.

Point 2 and 3 imply the existence of higher level weapons and equipment. This is hard, of course, because it not only depends on point 1, but also because there’s no level cap and I would need to create infinite weapons and equipment. This means procedural, of course, and that’s a mess of its own.

Originally the game had a level cap of 60. And content up to level 60. Once I removed it, everything after level 60 got really unbalanced. That’s a mess. I should do something to balance combat and add higher level equipment for higher level players, from levels 60 to infinity.

Do you agree? If you have any thoughts about this, please let me know, but I believe that’s what should be done here.
Hi there, I'm Lartu! Visit me at www.lartu.net and follow me on twitter! :D
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